<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: A Bold Claim
David VanDrunen 

I havenâ€™t had the c&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://deregnochristi.org/2006/06/09/bold-claim-david-vandrunen-i-havent/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://deregnochristi.org/2006/06/09/bold-claim-david-vandrunen-i-havent/</link>
	<description>The Reign of Christ</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Katsu</title>
		<link>http://deregnochristi.org/2006/06/09/bold-claim-david-vandrunen-i-havent/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>Katsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jun 2006 16:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deregnochristi.org/?p=14#comment-11</guid>
		<description>Dr. VanDrunen,&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;One need not appeal to Rutherford&lt;BR/&gt;or Gillespie, who had to fight&lt;BR/&gt;against (theologically) Thomas&lt;BR/&gt;Coleman the Erastian who indeed&lt;BR/&gt;held the view of Christ's Media-&lt;BR/&gt;torial Kingship over the nation.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;It is interesting to find good&lt;BR/&gt;old CRC giants such as Louis&lt;BR/&gt;Berkhof and R.B.Kiuper who&lt;BR/&gt;would see Christ the Mediator&lt;BR/&gt;reigns over the church as well&lt;BR/&gt;as the universe.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt; cf. Berkhof, *SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY*&lt;BR/&gt;     (a section on "the kingly   &lt;BR/&gt;      office")&lt;BR/&gt;     Kuiper, *THE GLORIOUS BODY&lt;BR/&gt;     OF CHRIST* (chapter 14, 31,&lt;BR/&gt;     42)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. VanDrunen,</p>
<p>One need not appeal to Rutherford<br />or Gillespie, who had to fight<br />against (theologically) Thomas<br />Coleman the Erastian who indeed<br />held the view of Christ&#8217;s Media-<br />torial Kingship over the nation.</p>
<p>It is interesting to find good<br />old CRC giants such as Louis<br />Berkhof and R.B.Kiuper who<br />would see Christ the Mediator<br />reigns over the church as well<br />as the universe.</p>
<p> cf. Berkhof, *SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY*<br />     (a section on &#8220;the kingly   <br />      office&#8221;)<br />     Kuiper, *THE GLORIOUS BODY<br />     OF CHRIST* (chapter 14, 31,<br />     42)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: W.H. Chellis</title>
		<link>http://deregnochristi.org/2006/06/09/bold-claim-david-vandrunen-i-havent/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>W.H. Chellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 21:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deregnochristi.org/?p=14#comment-12</guid>
		<description>Surprisingly, there is much that I agree with in your post.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Not surprisingly, I disagree with a great deal as well.  &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;You have an interesting and surprising quote from Rutherford.  Here is a quote from his Due Right of Presbyteries:&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;"I answer, when I consider the point more exactly, I see not how kings, who reign by the wisdom of God Jesus Christ, Prov. 8:14, 15, have not their kingly power from Christ, who hath all power given to him in Heaven and Earth, Matt. 28:18; Isaiah 49:15; Psalm 2:11, as Augustine saith 'therefore are they ordained, as means, by Christ the Mediator, to promote his Kingly throne.'  Some of our Divines will have the Kingly power come from God as Creator, is respect God giveth Kings, who are his Vicegerents, to those who are not redeemed, and to nations who never heard of Christ; and others hold that the kingly power floweth from Christ-mediator, in respect he accomplished his purposes of saving of his redeemed people, by Kings authority, and by the influence of their kingly government, procureth a feeding ministry and by their princely tutory, the edificaton of his body the Church, which possibly both aime at truth." (402-403).&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Notice, Rutherford points out that some Divines (like Gillespie... and maybe himself judging from your quote... which is earlier... I will have to check) hold that Christ rules the nations as God but not as mediator.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Of course, in either case, the moral law of God (the natural law) demands that Christ (o.k. the Triune God in the case of essential Kingship) be honored and His law be enforced.  &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;This seems easily proved from the political circumstances of Abraham as well as those of the Nineveh at the time of Jonah, ect.  &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Finally, I am not saying that Christ's rule over the nations is explicitly redemptive.  Yet, I do recognize that it serves a redemptive purpose.  I think this makes sence of Eph. 1:22.  &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Thus, I am keen to preserve distinctions between holy and common/ secular and sacred/ cult and culture. Yet, I am unwilling to allow a complete divorce since Christ rules over both.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Is this not what you understand by the division between the Kingdom of Power and the Kingdom of Grace?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surprisingly, there is much that I agree with in your post.</p>
<p>Not surprisingly, I disagree with a great deal as well.  </p>
<p>You have an interesting and surprising quote from Rutherford.  Here is a quote from his Due Right of Presbyteries:</p>
<p>&#8220;I answer, when I consider the point more exactly, I see not how kings, who reign by the wisdom of God Jesus Christ, Prov. 8:14, 15, have not their kingly power from Christ, who hath all power given to him in Heaven and Earth, Matt. 28:18; Isaiah 49:15; Psalm 2:11, as Augustine saith &#8216;therefore are they ordained, as means, by Christ the Mediator, to promote his Kingly throne.&#8217;  Some of our Divines will have the Kingly power come from God as Creator, is respect God giveth Kings, who are his Vicegerents, to those who are not redeemed, and to nations who never heard of Christ; and others hold that the kingly power floweth from Christ-mediator, in respect he accomplished his purposes of saving of his redeemed people, by Kings authority, and by the influence of their kingly government, procureth a feeding ministry and by their princely tutory, the edificaton of his body the Church, which possibly both aime at truth.&#8221; (402-403).</p>
<p>Notice, Rutherford points out that some Divines (like Gillespie&#8230; and maybe himself judging from your quote&#8230; which is earlier&#8230; I will have to check) hold that Christ rules the nations as God but not as mediator.</p>
<p>Of course, in either case, the moral law of God (the natural law) demands that Christ (o.k. the Triune God in the case of essential Kingship) be honored and His law be enforced.  </p>
<p>This seems easily proved from the political circumstances of Abraham as well as those of the Nineveh at the time of Jonah, ect.  </p>
<p>Finally, I am not saying that Christ&#8217;s rule over the nations is explicitly redemptive.  Yet, I do recognize that it serves a redemptive purpose.  I think this makes sence of Eph. 1:22.  </p>
<p>Thus, I am keen to preserve distinctions between holy and common/ secular and sacred/ cult and culture. Yet, I am unwilling to allow a complete divorce since Christ rules over both.</p>
<p>Is this not what you understand by the division between the Kingdom of Power and the Kingdom of Grace?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
