Comments on: J. Gresham Machen W.H. Chellis I try to be a thou… http://deregnochristi.org/2006/06/17/j/ The Reign of Christ Mon, 13 Oct 2008 22:10:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: W.H. Chellis http://deregnochristi.org/2006/06/17/j/#comment-48 W.H. Chellis Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:21:00 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/?p=22#comment-48 Fair enough.<BR/><BR/>Culture is subjective but God's providence is diverse. The RP/NRA endevour to amend the written Constitution of the United States with a Christian Amendment is objective, but no less objective than the place of Christ's Kingship within the unwritten constitution of England.<BR/><BR/>Now, the point is not some dull hope of creating a one size fits all "Christian culture" but allowing Christian truth to engage the whole life of the believer as it is lived in the household, the marketplace, and the polis.<BR/><BR/>This relates to the Kingship of Christ because His Kingdom of Power includes history/providence/ natural law/moral law. In this historical epoch, to speak about the rule of God in any area is to speak of the mediatorial reign of Christ. All reality is subservient to the economy of redemption.<BR/><BR/>Further, while the Kingdom of Power can be distinguished from the Kingdom of Grace but never divorced. All culture originates a common cultus. For this we might site R.J. Rushdoony or just as easily Christopher Dawson.<BR/><BR/>If this sounds Kupyerian, I would suggest it also sounds Thomistic. Would Richard Hooker or T.S. Eliot have said anything less? Would John Calvin or John Knox? <BR/><BR/>So, it might make me sound Kuyperian but it might simply make me Burkean. Fair enough.

Culture is subjective but God’s providence is diverse. The RP/NRA endevour to amend the written Constitution of the United States with a Christian Amendment is objective, but no less objective than the place of Christ’s Kingship within the unwritten constitution of England.

Now, the point is not some dull hope of creating a one size fits all “Christian culture” but allowing Christian truth to engage the whole life of the believer as it is lived in the household, the marketplace, and the polis.

This relates to the Kingship of Christ because His Kingdom of Power includes history/providence/ natural law/moral law. In this historical epoch, to speak about the rule of God in any area is to speak of the mediatorial reign of Christ. All reality is subservient to the economy of redemption.

Further, while the Kingdom of Power can be distinguished from the Kingdom of Grace but never divorced. All culture originates a common cultus. For this we might site R.J. Rushdoony or just as easily Christopher Dawson.

If this sounds Kupyerian, I would suggest it also sounds Thomistic. Would Richard Hooker or T.S. Eliot have said anything less? Would John Calvin or John Knox?

So, it might make me sound Kuyperian but it might simply make me Burkean.

]]> By: D Hart http://deregnochristi.org/2006/06/17/j/#comment-49 D Hart Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:27:00 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/?p=22#comment-49 Could someone explain to me how the kingship of Christ relates to Christianity having an impact on culture? I can see how Christian notions about human nature, the natural world, personal property, legitimate authority, etc., would be different for a society than the teachings of Hinduism or Confucianism. But the influence of Christianity on culture seems a fairly thin variety of Christ's kingship. The former is subjective, the latter is objective, and that's why the RP's wanted an amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Once you go down the road to transformation of culture, well, you might as well be Kuyperian.<BR/><BR/>Have a nice day. Could someone explain to me how the kingship of Christ relates to Christianity having an impact on culture? I can see how Christian notions about human nature, the natural world, personal property, legitimate authority, etc., would be different for a society than the teachings of Hinduism or Confucianism. But the influence of Christianity on culture seems a fairly thin variety of Christ’s kingship. The former is subjective, the latter is objective, and that’s why the RP’s wanted an amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Once you go down the road to transformation of culture, well, you might as well be Kuyperian.

Have a nice day.

]]> By: W.H. Chellis http://deregnochristi.org/2006/06/17/j/#comment-50 W.H. Chellis Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:53:00 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/?p=22#comment-50 I am not post-millenial. I am not even that optimistic. Still, I believe that Christianity can impact cultures. I do not need eschatology to tell me so. I have history. I do not need to look forward to a utopian abstraction, I can look back a concrete tradition.<BR/><BR/>Of course, the tradition is not without warts. The history is a bit bloody and sometimes embarrasing. It was never heaven on earth nor will it ever be. So what? Just because I reject perfectionism in my personal life does not mean I do not long for some feeble movement toward sanctification. I am not post-millenial. I am not even that optimistic. Still, I believe that Christianity can impact cultures. I do not need eschatology to tell me so. I have history. I do not need to look forward to a utopian abstraction, I can look back a concrete tradition.

Of course, the tradition is not without warts. The history is a bit bloody and sometimes embarrasing. It was never heaven on earth nor will it ever be. So what? Just because I reject perfectionism in my personal life does not mean I do not long for some feeble movement toward sanctification.

]]> By: Brent England http://deregnochristi.org/2006/06/17/j/#comment-51 Brent England Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:33:00 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/?p=22#comment-51 Hmmm...after taking a few minutes to surf the site I feel like singing Psalm 133 and giving hugs. Well, maybe we could just read the Psalm and keep the emotions to a minimum...<BR/><BR/>Big shout-outs to my "peeps" - Deedge and DVD! Nice to see you too, Bill!<BR/><BR/>Ennyhoo, I hope to be able to take more time to keep abreast of posts and maybe chime in occasionally. This is a topic where I was especially challenged during my happy days at WSC, and I am glad to continue being sharpened by brothers in Christ. Hmmm…after taking a few minutes to surf the site I feel like singing Psalm 133 and giving hugs. Well, maybe we could just read the Psalm and keep the emotions to a minimum…

Big shout-outs to my “peeps” - Deedge and DVD! Nice to see you too, Bill!

Ennyhoo, I hope to be able to take more time to keep abreast of posts and maybe chime in occasionally. This is a topic where I was especially challenged during my happy days at WSC, and I am glad to continue being sharpened by brothers in Christ.

]]> By: Andrew Matthews http://deregnochristi.org/2006/06/17/j/#comment-52 Andrew Matthews Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:10:00 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/?p=22#comment-52 It may be true that Machen moved away from postmillennialism, but did he also come to reject the consecration of culture? It seems to me that would entail the complete secularization of human life, where all human activity is oriented solely toward temporal ends. It may be true that Machen moved away from postmillennialism, but did he also come to reject the consecration of culture? It seems to me that would entail the complete secularization of human life, where all human activity is oriented solely toward temporal ends.

]]> By: W.H. Chellis http://deregnochristi.org/2006/06/17/j/#comment-53 W.H. Chellis Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:06:00 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/?p=22#comment-53 Darryl says, "step into my parlor"<BR/><BR/>Bill says, "ouch" Darryl says, “step into my parlor”

Bill says, “ouch”

]]> By: D Hart http://deregnochristi.org/2006/06/17/j/#comment-54 D Hart Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:52:00 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/?p=22#comment-54 It is the early Machen. He had yet to get the post-millennialism out of his system. Funny how a World War will help with that. It is the early Machen. He had yet to get the post-millennialism out of his system. Funny how a World War will help with that.

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