Comments on: Finding Protestantism’s Lost Sacramental Soul http://deregnochristi.org/2007/09/27/finding-protestantisms-lost-sacramental-soul/ The Reign of Christ Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:05:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: W.H. Chellis http://deregnochristi.org/2007/09/27/finding-protestantisms-lost-sacramental-soul/#comment-2014 W.H. Chellis Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:47:35 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/2007/09/27/finding-protestantisms-lost-sacramental-soul/#comment-2014 Ah... but.. 1. I do believe that there might be places in the Reformed tradition from whence a recovery could be made: Calvin, Nevin, Reformed Thomists like Vermigli and Zanchius, Bucer, ect. 2. I am willing to ask whether the whole thing is unreformed (unbiblical) and what might an alternative be to restoring the moral imagination to our midst. Ah… but..

1. I do believe that there might be places in the Reformed tradition from whence a recovery could be made: Calvin, Nevin, Reformed Thomists like Vermigli and Zanchius, Bucer, ect.

2. I am willing to ask whether the whole thing is unreformed (unbiblical) and what might an alternative be to restoring the moral imagination to our midst.

]]> By: joshuawdsmith http://deregnochristi.org/2007/09/27/finding-protestantisms-lost-sacramental-soul/#comment-2009 joshuawdsmith Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:30:18 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/2007/09/27/finding-protestantisms-lost-sacramental-soul/#comment-2009 But...but...why don't you mention the Reformed confessions here!? You're anti-traditional! You're modern! But…but…why don’t you mention the Reformed confessions here!? You’re anti-traditional! You’re modern!

]]> By: James Jordan http://deregnochristi.org/2007/09/27/finding-protestantisms-lost-sacramental-soul/#comment-2007 James Jordan Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:00:07 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/2007/09/27/finding-protestantisms-lost-sacramental-soul/#comment-2007 I really don't think anyone was thinking, "let's restore a 'sacramental vision.'" For myself, it's a matter of obedience, what is sometimes called "regulative principle." It's a matter of trying to read the Bible as a total word from the total God to the total humanity, which I gather is "Biblicism." The Bible is extremely artistic, full of repeated melodies "sung" by the Spirit/Breath of God (the 7-day sequence appears about 100 times; one exodus after another; etc.); replete with beautiful imagery that portrays successive worlds in God's history; etc. I think over time those of us seeking to immerse ourselves in the Biblical worldview have become more artistic; or perhaps it's our artistic temperaments that opened us up to such ways of reading. As for sacraments, as I say, it's a matter of obedience. If we were going for artistic feel, then some kind of walking forward and kneeling would be our instinct. But we contradict our instincts. Our religious instincts are usually wrong and always suspicious. It does not "feel pious" to sit in a pew and pass bread (daily type bread) and wine from hand to hand, eating as we go (as Jesus instituted) -- but that does not matter. Our feelings must be retrained. What's now called "FV" is a conversation about how to be obedient to the Word, and in light of that to seek to correct some of the abuses/barnacles/infelicities/etcs. that always grow up in the Church. I'm all for what you call a sacramental worldview, and the opening chapters of *Through New Eyes* are about "natural revelation." But when you ask what the "FV" purpose was/is, it's really not that at heart. At heart we believe that God knows best and that the more we can learn from the Bible, and the more we submit to it in thought and in how we live and move, the better people we shall become, better fit for service. I really don’t think anyone was thinking, “let’s restore a ’sacramental vision.’” For myself, it’s a matter of obedience, what is sometimes called “regulative principle.” It’s a matter of trying to read the Bible as a total word from the total God to the total humanity, which I gather is “Biblicism.” The Bible is extremely artistic, full of repeated melodies “sung” by the Spirit/Breath of God (the 7-day sequence appears about 100 times; one exodus after another; etc.); replete with beautiful imagery that portrays successive worlds in God’s history; etc. I think over time those of us seeking to immerse ourselves in the Biblical worldview have become more artistic; or perhaps it’s our artistic temperaments that opened us up to such ways of reading.

As for sacraments, as I say, it’s a matter of obedience. If we were going for artistic feel, then some kind of walking forward and kneeling would be our instinct. But we contradict our instincts. Our religious instincts are usually wrong and always suspicious. It does not “feel pious” to sit in a pew and pass bread (daily type bread) and wine from hand to hand, eating as we go (as Jesus instituted) — but that does not matter. Our feelings must be retrained.

What’s now called “FV” is a conversation about how to be obedient to the Word, and in light of that to seek to correct some of the abuses/barnacles/infelicities/etcs. that always grow up in the Church.

I’m all for what you call a sacramental worldview, and the opening chapters of *Through New Eyes* are about “natural revelation.” But when you ask what the “FV” purpose was/is, it’s really not that at heart. At heart we believe that God knows best and that the more we can learn from the Bible, and the more we submit to it in thought and in how we live and move, the better people we shall become, better fit for service.

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