Comments on: Augustinian Antithesis http://deregnochristi.org/2007/12/04/augustinian-antithesis/ The Reign of Christ Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:26:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: phoenixii » Augustinian Antithesis http://deregnochristi.org/2007/12/04/augustinian-antithesis/#comment-2571 phoenixii » Augustinian Antithesis Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:13:24 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/2007/12/04/augustinian-antithesis/#comment-2571 [...] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here’s a quick excerptPathetically, the kingdoms of this world seek to deny their pilgrim status. Their glory is the glory of “this world”, a glory that is already fading. Yet, against all hope, the world seeks to make eternal that which is passing. … [...] [...] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here’s a quick excerptPathetically, the kingdoms of this world seek to deny their pilgrim status. Their glory is the glory of “this world”, a glory that is already fading. Yet, against all hope, the world seeks to make eternal that which is passing. … [...]

]]> By: Augustinian Antithesis « St. Augustine http://deregnochristi.org/2007/12/04/augustinian-antithesis/#comment-2536 Augustinian Antithesis « St. Augustine Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:12:12 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/2007/12/04/augustinian-antithesis/#comment-2536 [...] post info By aureliusaugustinus Categories: Atheism, Augustine, Christianity, God, Religion, St. Augustine, apologetics, christian theology, philosophy, reformed theology, scripture and theology Tags: Augustine, Augustine of Hippo, Christianity, church, God, Presbyterian, Religion, St. Augustine “Augustinian Antithesis” [...] [...] post info By aureliusaugustinus Categories: Atheism, Augustine, Christianity, God, Religion, St. Augustine, apologetics, christian theology, philosophy, reformed theology, scripture and theology Tags: Augustine, Augustine of Hippo, Christianity, church, God, Presbyterian, Religion, St. Augustine “Augustinian Antithesis” [...]

]]> By: W.H. Chellis http://deregnochristi.org/2007/12/04/augustinian-antithesis/#comment-2530 W.H. Chellis Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:48:21 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/2007/12/04/augustinian-antithesis/#comment-2530 What I am trying to avoid is the chest thumping and self-congratulatory back patting. How many sermons have I head declaring that we are morally respectable and the world is evil. My neighbors do not go to church but they are outwardly nice people and moral. Are the folks of my congregation really "better" than them? Is it becoming for Christians to say so? Please do not misunderstand me... virtue matters and the church should be a teacher and defender of virtue. Still, humility is in order. Faithful obedience is not self-righteousness. What I am trying to avoid is the chest thumping and self-congratulatory back patting. How many sermons have I head declaring that we are morally respectable and the world is evil. My neighbors do not go to church but they are outwardly nice people and moral. Are the folks of my congregation really “better” than them? Is it becoming for Christians to say so?

Please do not misunderstand me… virtue matters and the church should be a teacher and defender of virtue. Still, humility is in order. Faithful obedience is not self-righteousness.

]]> By: Nick Steffen http://deregnochristi.org/2007/12/04/augustinian-antithesis/#comment-2523 Nick Steffen Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:12:41 +0000 http://deregnochristi.org/2007/12/04/augustinian-antithesis/#comment-2523 Could you flesh out this paragraph a bit more? "We must be careful. We must not define the difference between the City of God and the cities of men by moral virtue. It is flatly false to suggest that Christians are more moral than their unbelieving neighbors. Rather, it is the nature of its faithful trust and loving obedience that separates the church from the world. The church, the visible manifestation of God’s Kingdom on earth, lives out of humble gratitude knowing that her faith is ever weak and her love ever burning cold, but her help is in the name of the Lord. The authentic mark of the City of God is a humble faith, wholly dependent upon the righteousness of Christ, and a living gratitude for our divinely accomplished salvation." What is the difference between the trust, obedience, gratitude, etc that does distinguish us as Christians and the "moral virtue" that does not? If you mean that that trust, obedience, etc are simply signs of God working through us (ie fruits of Spirit), why isn't moral virtue in the same category? Could you flesh out this paragraph a bit more?

“We must be careful. We must not define the difference between the City of God and the cities of men by moral virtue. It is flatly false to suggest that Christians are more moral than their unbelieving neighbors. Rather, it is the nature of its faithful trust and loving obedience that separates the church from the world. The church, the visible manifestation of God’s Kingdom on earth, lives out of humble gratitude knowing that her faith is ever weak and her love ever burning cold, but her help is in the name of the Lord. The authentic mark of the City of God is a humble faith, wholly dependent upon the righteousness of Christ, and a living gratitude for our divinely accomplished salvation.”

What is the difference between the trust, obedience, gratitude, etc that does distinguish us as Christians and the “moral virtue” that does not? If you mean that that trust, obedience, etc are simply signs of God working through us (ie fruits of Spirit), why isn’t moral virtue in the same category?

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