RSSThe Crunchy Conservative Candidate
W.H. Chellis
Rod Dreher has made it official. He has endorsed Mike Huckabee.
I really admire Dreher and his book Crunchy Cons. I cannot say that his endorsement does not give me pause to reflect on Huckabee’s positives. Could traditionalists find a champion in Huckabee?
If Huckabee follows Dreher’s advice, goes to the Kirk Center in Mecosta, pays homage to Russell Kirk and his legacy, talks about cultural renewal and other traditionalist themes… I could be swayed.
Travis Prinzi
January 11th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Given the tone of Dreher’s posting lately, I figured this was coming, so I’m not surprised.
But I am surprised that he started down this road, I think. How can Mr. Localist endorse the guy who, in last night’s debate, couldn’t even give a straight answer when asked about his policies on the size of government? He would not even flat-out deny the label, “Big Government Republican.” He prattled on about “raising hope” in Arkansas.
But Dreher might be right that traditional conservative principles might inflamed the mind of Huck and turn him in a positive direction. Until then, I can’t support the guy.
chrisdat
January 11th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Jim Pinkerton too as joined the Huckbee team. I’m just waiting for the “big†announcement that W. H. Chellis endorses Huckabee - that will make me really happy. But than that would blow your ‘two kingdoms’ credentials, at least according to Kim Riddleberger. Be the alternative to the “reformed spin†- join the Huckateam.
W.H. Chellis
January 11th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Jim Pinkerton is a good man. An a descendent of covenanters.
W.H. Chellis
January 11th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Did Kim R. really say that there is some kind of two kingdom issue with Huckabee?
C Brown
January 11th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Here’s Riddlebarger’s post: http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/the-latest-post/2008/1/7/mike-huckabee-and-the-two-kingdoms.html
C Brown
January 11th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Here’s the practical question: Is it appropriate for a man to be both a preacher and a politician at the same time? Riddlebarger says no, and I tend to agree. Huckabee should let others do the preaching now. Is he becoming the white version of the Rev. Jesse Jackson?
chrisdat
January 12th, 2008 at 6:39 am
I’ll repeat what I replied to Riddlebarge. This additional detail I believe offers a more complicated perspective than what Kim repeated from the Washington Times.
I was at a Huckabee campaign event after the Sat. NH debate. I was asking what another volunteer who’d flown in from Michigan was doing on Sunday. She said she was going to the church Mike Huckabee was going to attend. When I inquired as to what church was that - she said she couldn’t say it was being kept quiet. “It was NOT a campaign eventâ€. She continued to say that Huckabee wanted people to attend their own church unless they were from out-of-town or did not have a local church. If I was looking for a church to attend I could speak to a campaign staffer and get further information. Sounds like a good pastor to me - oops, except he’s not a pastor, he’s been a Governor for the last 10.5 years.
So the question is - can one be a former pastor and than a politician? Jesse Jackson in both!! Mike Huckabee is running for President, not trying to be a Pastor. He has not been a pastor for 15 some years. If you’ve once been a Pastor, can you only forever stay in “one kingdom� Isn’t that a perversion of the two kingdom understanding?
Lastly, let me add that I later met up with NH campaign staff on Monday. No one had any idea that Mike would be asked to deliver a “talk†from the Pulpit. Another preacher was scheduled. If you read the reported snippet of text from the sermon - it did not involve politics specifically, but did exhort Christians to be involved. Here is the one brief quote that is available in the press: Huckabee said:
“When you give yourself to Christ, some relationships have to go,” he said. “It’s no longer your life; you’ve signed it over.”
Likening service to God to service in the military, Huckabee said “there is suffering in the conditioning for battle” and “you obey the orders.”
O.K. - it’s a snippet - we don’t know what else he said. But is that confusing the two kingdoms?
BTW, the quote has been endlessly posted about as to how Huckabee wants to raise an army for God - sounds like the blog world is doing the confusing.
C Brown
January 12th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Still, though, the bottom line is that Huckabee delivered a “talk” from behind a pulpit in a church on Sunday. In my book, that’s called preaching. Two days later, he appeared on the ballot for President of the US in the NH primary.
Yes, Huckabee has not been a “pastor” for many years. But he continues to accept invitations to “preach”. That’s why I specifically used the term “preacher”, not “pastor”. When your full-time job requires that you deliver political speeches on the campaign trail, you should probably refrain from getting behind a pulpit on Sunday morning. Otherwise, confusion of the messages is inevitable.
W.H. Chellis
January 12th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
I take issue with my friend Charles Brown on this one. I agree that the situation COULD be problematic but need not be if the candidate is thoughtful in his approach.
This requires a certain amount of dualism but I think a two kingdom approach would allow for this, no?
Even if it does not, to bad. Christendom has been filled with clergymen who have served as statesman. Many of England’s greatest Chancellors were churchman. John Calvin carried a great deal of weight on secular matters in Geneva. John Witherspoon represented New Jersey in the Continental Congress and signed the Declaration of Independence.
John Danforth is a thoughful guy, a former U.S. Senator and an Episcopal Priest. A bit liberal for my taste but I like him anyway (he helped save the nomination of Justice Thomas). No one questions him. Mostly because he respects the dualism… but maybe to much?
Sure, if a guy wants to govern as a Pastor or wants to Pastor as a magistrate you have a real two kingdom problem. Mike Huckabee may well want to govern as a Pastor… but this should not create a rule that says that a man cannot were both the hat of a magistrate and the hat of a minister… the only problem occurs when he wears the wrong hat to the office.
BTW… I think Professor Gamble ran for office in his Westminster Theological Seminary days and I see no reason why that was bad form.
I admit I have a vested interest… being a member of the bar and the presbytery.
Josh M.
January 14th, 2008 at 8:49 am
Problem is that Huckabee’s face and name are well associated with the race for the most powerful and well-known political office in the world. Sermons are built into the P.R. campaign, which Ed Rollins and company know is good for getting a certain type of press and reaching a core voting group. Reporters come to church and interview him. By default this preaching tour Huckabee’s on is a way to campaign. For example, where did Huckabee preach his last sermon? Coincidentally–or maybe not–in a state with an upcoming primary, at a megachurch with thousands of people.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080114/D8U5AF180.html
chrisdat
January 14th, 2008 at 10:20 am
I appreciate the link to Huckabee’s sermon on this Sunday. To quote from the link - “On Sunday in South Carolina, Huckabee avoided politics entirely, instead preaching about humility and trusting in Jesus to open the gates of heaven. ‘The criteria to get into heaven is you have to be not good, but perfect. That’s the real challenge in it’.
My question - as a church layman, is it possible to speak about Jesus in church, on Sunday and not be charged with advancing your business, community standing, politics etc? In speaking the gospel as an athlete who just won a major championship - are we accusing the athlete of shilling for endorsements? Can a politician who is a Christian use the appropriate opportunities (i.e. being in a church pulpit or sharing the gospel when asked) to speak of Christ and not be accused of manipulating the evangelical vote?
It seems everyone is saying the answer is, “No”.
For a different take on Republicans and Democrats and how they “use” or the church here’s an interesting interview given this morning by Huckabee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzVJbZu9OBA
W.H. Chellis
January 14th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Let me distance myself from the “no” group and say that they most certainly can. Thanks for the link. All the talk of social justice makes me a bit uncomfortable and yet I am no libertarian.
This is a good conversation for the right. Do we agree with Aristotle that virtue is the end of government? Do we believe with Burke that a nation is a “community of souls”? What do these things mean for a Republican candidate in 2008?
I do not think it means a national smoking ban, more egalitarianism, and more government.
Still, it is a good time for conservative to unite with Kirk and Roepke and be as critical of big corporations as we have been of big government.
Can Huckabee develop into the “Small is Beautiful” candidate? Maybe, but I am still waiting.
chrisdat
January 14th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
As you can tell I am a Huckabee supporter. I am no Kuyperion, and am influenced by Burke (although not laziz-faire in my economics - and I love the quote that has been sometimes attributed to Burke - “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing“) I think you hit question of 2008. What does a Republican candidate look like in 2008 who is informed by Burke and united with Kirk? And secondly, can one be a Christian/Burke/Kirk influenced candidate all at one time? I see in Huckabee the best hope for the union of Burke to Kirk, and the fact that he is a Christian - I will not hold against him (as do many “evangelical influencersâ€).
As a side note - I keep seeing the reference to a “National Smoking Banâ€. This reference comes from what Huckabee said in a Lance Armstrong Cancer Forum. Huckabee said he would work toward the establishment of a smoking ban in all public workplaces. Is this so onerous? We ban asbestos, radon gas, mold, etc. Why is the resistance to providing smoke free work environments such an anethema? I guess I do see a place for virtue in government. I also recycle, turn of my lights, and try no to liter when passing out tracts:)
Thanks for the interesting conversation - some good topics!
Josh M.
January 14th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
chrisdat, your questions are generic and so the answers have to be “maybe” and “sometimes.” If Huckabee does this every Sunday in states that have primaries 7-10 days from the service (and notice he is going to rather large churches, not the local RPCNA service), it becomes increasingly likely that this isn’t as innocent as you think but is planned by the campaign, which is always prepared for the after-service P.R. stuff. Yes, his sermon content was not necessarily political pandering; but the context could make it so.
Pastor Chellis: Aristotle’s polis is a smallish Greek city-state, ethnically homogenous in social makeup, which is probably as organic as anything Burke would love. Republicans candidates are trying to appeal to a proposition nation of 250 million, which has a mostly dead letter for a constitution. There isn’t much for conservatism proper to work with these days, except to radically scale back political power and social influence from the Federal level. Until a politician backs up his talk with action, the “small is beautiful” and “states’ right” talk is hot air. And the drift toward modern-day liberalism will continue.